Deconstructing Dixie
8
(This rant began life as a post at Podcast Alley.)
So the advertising deal that Mommycast has with the Dixie brand1 is back in the news again, thanks to an article this week in USA Today. The article, about parenting podcasts in general, is actually decent reading and presents a good list of pointers (even if they get the name of 101 Uses for Baby Wipes wrong.) But of course the “Oh, wow” part, the one that caused excitement at the Alley, is this:
Vogelzang and Paige Heninger combine coffee-klatch banter about their families and interviews with parenting experts. Vogelzang estimates the show attracts more than 300,000 downloads a week. In March, the twice-a-week Mommycast begins a one-year, $100,000 sponsorship deal2 with Dixie, making the paper-goods company the first major corporate advertiser of an independently produced podcast that’s not about technology, says radio industry researcher Tom Webster of Edison Research in New Jersey.
Ferg (of the unusually spiffy couplecast Air Ferg) put up the pointer to that news and said “Cha-ching!” And I can understand the reaction. Six figures is a lot of figures. If you write it on a check you have to write the numerals pretty small to fit them in the box. But does the cha really ching?
Let’s do the math…
- Mommycast is with Podshow, and their 60% commission is notorious in the community. It’s always possible Mommycast has a different deal with them, but I’ve never heard of any exceptions to this part of the Podshow contract, and I have heard about major podcasters who were told it was non-negotiable. If you take it as a given, then Mommycast’s cut of the deal is actually $40,000. Hmmm. Okay… Let’s say cha-ching.
- Mommycast has two hosts. $40,000 over the course of a year is $770 per week. Income per host, before taxes, comes to $385 per week. Cha-ching?
- The article says Mommycast does two shows a week. That’s 104 shows a year, but let’s be generous and give them a couple weeks off, simplifying to 100 shows. That’s $400 per episode. The article also says they do 300,000 downloads per week… Splitting that evenly and assuming archive exposures also even out, that comes to 150,000 downloads per episode.3
- Advertising rates are generally quoted as CPM, which means “cost per thousand exposures.” There are no standard rates in the industry yet, but Kiptronic is pitching CPM rates to advertisers of around $50. Podtrac is pushing to raise rates into the vicinity of $100 to $150 for brand awareness campaigns. Even the Tech Podcast Network, who’s been doing ads longer than just about anyone, sets rates around a $10 to $15 CPM, or so I’ve heard anecdotally. And Rocketboom’s recent EBay sale for a single week’s ads at $40,000 comes out to a $40 CPM for them.4 Mommycast’s effective CPM rate for their cut of the Dixie deal? $400 / 150 = $2.67. Even if you assume they’re keeping all the money, it still comes out to only 6 bucks and change. And if they grow their show over the course of the year then the per-listener revenue plummets. (That’s why a year is way too long for a contract like this. Your show’s value goes up, but you can’t capitalize on that.)
“Cha-ching” my delicately scented posterior. It sounds good on the surface, but compared to what a show of their audience size should be doing, the hosts are getting royally shafted in this deal. A talk radio host with a couple hundred thousand listeners can make a very good living. This is one of Podshow’s signature shows, and the highest-profile deal Podshow’s been talking about. If any of the numbers here are close to accurate, then these podcast superstars could “quit their day jobs” for salaries equivalent to gas station attendants.5
Think carefully about your role models and business models in the podcast community, folks. That’s all I have to say. Do the math, and think carefully.
- A division of Georgia-Pacific, which is now a division of Koch Industries, which is owned by the richest family you’ve probably never heard of. ↩
- According to this one article. Other press on the same news has said “North of six figures” and other such vagaries, but you know it can’t be much more than $100K. If it was, they’d have said “More than $120,000″ or “Nearly $200,000″ or whatever sounds more impressive. ↩
- Although other stories about them as recently as November indicated downloads of half million a month. So either the USA Today story is overshooting or they’ve had incredible growth in three months. Still, it is the most recent source, so let’s take it as correct. ↩
- People have pointed out that the Rocketboom sale represents a single high-profile incident, and that they’re unlikely to sustain it. Good point. But that’s still the math for that week. And I like Rocketboom. ↩
- Yeah, I know they don’t have day jobs. Lucky, lucky them. ↩
I may be wrong here, but I think that the Mommycast signed up with Podshow after the deal with Dixie. I don’t know for sure, but the timing was almost immediate, and since deals like that don’t get signed overnight, I have to assume that it was at least already in the works before their Podshow affiliation. So that at least might take the ‘commission’ out of the equation. But even so, your analysis really beings home the fact that great deals aren’t so great when you being a middle-man into the mix.
-Russell
PS: Great site by the way…
Comment by treocast — February 20, 2006 @ 12:00 pm
Still, more than making nothing, which is where the overwhelming majority of us are.
That’s my $.02. Now I’m just that much further in the red. Wheee!
Comment by spacemonkey — February 24, 2006 @ 10:29 am
This is Gretchen from MommyCast. Thanks for all of the interest in our relationship with Dixie. Paige and I couldn’t be more excited. But, not just for the money aspect. This is actually going to be a partnership. MommyCast is going to be included in their print and television advertising throughout all of the campaigns this year. Hmmm…millions of dollars of advertising with MommyCast included….millions of potential listeners being introduced to MommyCast….I’ll let you do that math! They are interested in growing our listenership - the more people who listen to MommyCast, the more exposure Dixie gets through this new medium. Dixie is smart. Putting ads on a podcast and walking away is pretty ineffective. Our relationship with Dixie goes much deeper. It is the type of partnership that will most certainly continue beyond this first year and, I believe, will set a standard for others to follow.
Our relationship with PodShow has also been very rewarding and extremely important in our growth and development. They have been very kind to us and we look forward to a lasting relationship with them.
Now, as for the comment that we don’t have day jobs…KaPOW! On behalf of all of the moms around the world…shame on you!
Comment by Gretchen — February 24, 2006 @ 6:38 pm
[…] In this case, Gretchen from Mommycast read and commented on my post on their deal with Dixie. First off, thanks very much for coming by and taking the time. My wife and I have both listened to your show before. You’ve got an engaging style, and the topics you hit on are real ones. I can see why your show is popular. […]
Pingback by The Podcast Pedant » Dixie Defended — February 24, 2006 @ 10:59 pm
I could never blame anyone for wanting to make some decent money from their podcast. So good on the Mommycast folks for creating a quality show that can earn them some spare change. Like anyone who uses a broker for a deal they’re going to fork over a good percentage of the gross for the service of having the deal brokered. And once you figure in the split and taxes, you’ve got a reasonable second income. But you don’t have enough money to replace an average day job. Especially if you’ve got a couple of kids.
As far as the downloads go. I’ve heard varying numbers from some of these popular podcasts. I’d like to see some of these podcasts publish definitive data that proves it. Cause frankly, I think folks are over estimating…by a lot.
With regards to the content. I’ve never listened and don’t plan to. I’m a father of a 9 month old. I’m pretty tired of all the advice that people have to offer on parenting. That includes Dr. Laura, Dr. Phil, and any number of personalities. Parenting is a very personal thing and every situation is different. I listen to a tight circle of family and close friends, but that’s about it.
Comment by Rob S — February 27, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
[…] The Podcast Pedant takes a look at the recent ad deal between Dixie products and the Mommycast podcast. The conclusion is that he doesn’t think it is a very good deal: It sounds good on the surface, but compared to what a show of their audience size should be doing, the hosts are getting royally shafted in this deal. A talk radio host with a couple hundred thousand listeners can make a very good living. This is one of Podshow’s signature shows, and the highest-profile deal Podshow’s been talking about. If any of the numbers here are close to accurate, then these podcast superstars could “quit their day jobs” for salaries equivalent to gas station attendants. Posted by: Rick Ellis on Feb 24, 06 | 1:18 pm | Profile [0] comments (0 views) | [0] Trackbacks [0] Pingbacks […]
Pingback by Weblog — March 6, 2006 @ 1:28 pm
Thank God the Mommy casters don’t live in the Great White North, or they would be kissing away another 30% of their bottom line to Uncle Pierre.
Comment by Andy Doan — March 6, 2006 @ 8:04 pm
I guarantee this isn’t real dollars we’re talking - this is a barter deal whereby MommyCast gets exposure through Dixie ads and they turned around and gave that exposure a dollar figure….
Comment by Jeff — March 22, 2006 @ 4:44 pm